AZHOC - Arizona Homeowners Coalition
Voice for homeowner rights and justice.


Hi Dennis,
I posted in a question from February so maybe you didn’t see it so I’m posting this. A couple of us are getting ready to file a complaint with ADRE re the tapes the BOD made and will not provide copies to any of us. I have filled out the forms and have included an email thread between the property management company (Amcor). Is there anything I should know or be prepared for? Should I have an atty review the forms?

Thanks, Dave

3 Responses

  1. dennisl


    I sorry if I missed your post in February. that is something a very seldom do but sometimes they get by me. So i take it that the association has recorded meeting and you are asking for copies of those recordings. The way that i structured the language in the bill that passed in 2016 is that the board cannot prevent any homeowner from recording any meeting of the board, unless they record the meeting and make that recording available to any homeowner wishing to get a copy. The fundamental premise is that the homeowner has a right to record and the association cannot abridge that right unless they record the meeting for the homeowners and provide them a copy of that recording. The loophole in that law is that if the association does not prevent any homeowner from recording and they record the meeting for their own purposed, there is no obligation for the board to provide copies of that recording to the members.
    The crux of the issue will be if the association records the meeting does that recording become a record of the association obviously your association will be arguing that the official record of the meeting are the minutes and the recording are simply used as an aid in developing the minutes for that meeting. That is an argument that they will probably win. The key to your case is did prevent any homeowner from recording the meetings in question if the answer to that is yes then you have a slam dunk case. They violated the law in not making those recording available to any member.

    If however the answer to that question is no than you have no real case unless for some reason the association has made those recordings association records.

    While i can provide you no legal advice you need to decide if the association denied anyone the right to record the meeting in any way and then denied any member access to recording they made of that meeting. The ALJ can only rule on direct violation of the law and unless you can prove that the association violated the literal language of the law you will be throwing away your filing fee.

    You all have the right to record any meeting and to use that recording in any way and share that recording with anyone that you chose. That is what I fought for in that bill. The association has the exact same right to any recording they make for their own purposes. Because you chose not to record a meeting does not mean that the association must share any recording that they made for their own use.

    What would you say if the association asked for a copy of your recording of a meeting? What i would say is if you wanted a recording you could have recorded the meeting on your own, you have no right to my personal property.


  2. Dave Green

    Thanks, Dennis –

    No, you didn’t miss answering. I posted to something I posted in Feb re taping of BOD meetings. I’m going to file a complaint with AZDRE tomorrow or the next day. Like you said, it will be a slam dunk. Not only do I have written proof, I have video proof where the BOD said we can “make an appointment to view the recordings with a board member”. It’s ridiculous. And I really do appreciate your help.

    I have two more questions.

    Our Articles of Incorporation were formed in 1975. In it Article V states: The commencement of this corporation shall be the issuance to it of the Certificate of Incorporation by the Arizona Corporation Commission, and it shall endure for the full term of twenty-five (25) years thereafter unless said term shall be hereafter extended in accordance law.

    Is our Corporation invalid?


    We want copies of contracts with the management company (Amcor Properties). They say that their contract with the HOA is proprietary and and won’t be given. Seems to me this is illegal. I’ve read 33-1805 and there are very few exceptions for withholding records and “proprietary” isn’t one of them.

    One more thing. They (Amcor) and the HOA claimed to have had a “noticed” meeting on June 7. We (some of us homeowners) know, without doubt, that that meeting actually took place a week earlier on May 31 with ONE homeowner present. It wasn’t noticed. We were told that that meeting (June 7) was posted in our clubhouse (which is closed) and on their website (nowhere to be seen) and emailed (doesn’t exist).

    These people, the HOA and management company, are clearly acting without regard to law. It’s amazing to me that there is no state or any government oversight of HOA’s.

    Sorry for the rant.


  3. dennisl


    You have to remember one thing ADRE can only address violations of the law or violations of the governing documents. The association violated the law only if they prevented anyone from recording meetings. Just because they said that they would allow members to view the recordings and then failed to do so does not violate the law in and of itself.

    Your Articles are unusual but a quick check of the ACC’s web site for the status of your association would answer your question. CC&R’s also have a typical validation period, but they auto renew so it is a meaningless provision.

    The proposal from a management company for consideration by the board would be proprietary and therefore confidential and excluded from records request under the law. But once the association signs a contract with that management company it is a record of the association and subject to records request under the law. Like I’ve always said most management companies could be replaced with trained monkeys and you would get the same service. Because a management company or manager says something does not mean it is true or in any way valid it is simply what they were told to say.


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